addons.mozilla.org

Remember AMO, remember it all.

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I also noticed that I almost never type the www anymore, anyway. Except for a few sites I know where I get nothing without the www and they constantly annoy me. It’s also not nice to the user to issue 404s in that case, imho.

In an effort to provide the best possible customer experience, this page has been removed.

And no - there were no links on it to any of the missing downloads, nor can the site be searched - google was the only thing that found them again…

First, and most pedantic, Mike’s quote from Avi is not exactly a clear example of confirmation bias. It seems more like an “Appeal to Ignorance”. that is “There’s no evidence for X, so it must not be true” Confirmation bias is more like “There’s some evidence for X, so it must be true”.

Second, REST is not about pretty URL’s. REST and Pretty URLs have very little to do with eachother. And while you may think you’re being clever, and subverting REST with your seaside framework, as long as you’re using HTTP, you’re using REST architecture whether you like it or not. The question here about seaside’s state model then, is not about whether it’s RESTful, but whether or not its breaking the expectations of the client application (Either a browser, or a search engine, or other client).

That is, the worst crime of session state is that it breaks the back button, it breaks bookmarking, it breaks the user expectation of what happens when they send a friend or college a web address. Basically, session state, (and also Ajax) are a really bad idea for the same reasons that frames were a really bad idea. It may seem in the heat of the moment a really convenient way to get things done, but the end result is a broken website.

The worst part of it is that Users, and consequently, web developers, who are also users, don’t see anything wrong with breaking the back button, or breaking bookmarks.

REST architecture, it’s true, is not necessarily the best architecture for an application- But it is a really good architecture for designing applications that must work over a network- The constraints of REST are not there simply to annoy desktop application developers, they’re there to force you to SIMPLIFY your application’s design in such a way that it is robust against network failures, slow connections, allows proxies and caching, and other really good features that Ramon seems perfectly happy to throw away without a second thought just to make his website a little easier for him to program.

So what we have here is a design decision that costs the users dearly by breaking their browser, harming usability, making the application perform very poorly over a network, for what? To make it a little easier for you to program? This doesn’t seem like a particularly professional attitude to me.

I haven’t followed all of your discussion with Ramon, but suffice t to say that there are always two sides to an argument. I like REST, and I also like Seaside. Design is always about compromise and Seaside chooses to compromise on URL prettiness, and as a consequence it gains in other areas like ease of implementation.

I must say that I’m intrigued by your interest in URLs. The web has had a significant impact, and I agree that end-user accessibility as been a big part of that. The concept of URLs is intuitive, along with the web metaphor which most people can grasp relatively easily.

The issue for me is whether this intuitive “web of resources” metaphor is part of the webs past or whether it represents the webs future? We are going through interesting times where the future of the web is up for grabs.

Personally, I believe that the web has hit critical mas were any future initiative would do well to build on the webs current strengths, and I agree with you that URLs are one of those strengths. Technology that tries to make the web into something that it isn’t doesn’t seem to be fairing too well. This is why I like REST.

Having said this, HTTP may prove to be the wrong approach in the long run. For example the immersive web where we are invited to climb into a 3D virtual world, just like the movie “The Matrix”, may be just around the corner. 2nd life has shown a glimpse of what is possible here, and The Open Croquet project has shown that technically a 3D collaborative web is indeed feasible.

The thing to bear in mind is that innovation can often mean going out on a limb and doing things differently. For an example of what I mean, take a look at the iPhone. By choosing not to confine itself to the rules of the past - apple have managed to come up with something that is a real step forward. So we need to keep the ability to “think out of the box”, which is why I wouldn’t knock Seaside for taking a different slant.

In all, I don’t know. Personally, I don’t believe web 2.0 is all that ambitious, but I do agree that there is probably a lot of mileage in HTTP/REST, mashups and pretty URLs. Would I love the web to re-invent itself in a truly innovative way along the lines of Open Croquet? Yes. In the croquet world URLs are replaced with what the Croquet team call postcards, there are no central servers and HTTP resource requests are replaced by peer-to-peer distributed object replication. So is the 3D collaborative web revolution likely to happen anytime soon? Probably not, for a myriad of reasons, non of which are technical :^).

I plan to be working Atlanta soon, and I would love to meet you in person. I find what you have to say really interesting. The fact that you are thinking about such things impresses me. Keep up the advocacy!

Paul.

Looks like it takes whole life to get PR7. I will not even talk about PR8+

The thing is even if you know the scale of PR is calculated - you can try fool arounf the SE’s, but one day they will find you - and you will be done!

So as I believe, the best way is the longest way, it is much safer and better to grow gradually, than the next update get the “desired” PR and after that in the following update enjoy no traffic at all….

Best of luck!

I’ll fix it up.